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Post by naill on Feb 15, 2012 7:36:05 GMT -5
Is taking medications to control anxiety, depression, and other mental conditions a learned response? Is medication being passed down to the next generation?
Do some learn to control their thoughts by taking medications instead of learning to control their thoughts with other means?
Why would someone fabulously wealthy, talented, and adored need medications unless those medications had been introduced to them as the preferred method instead of dealing with the mental problems in other ways?
I am always surprised to learn of the number of children and adults who take prescription medications to control mental conditions. When we meet people on the street, how do we know it is really them and not them on medication?
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Post by Holy Schist on Feb 15, 2012 9:20:19 GMT -5
Is taking medications to control anxiety, depression, and other mental conditions a learned response? Is medication being passed down to the next generation? Do some learn to control their thoughts by taking medications instead of learning to control their thoughts with other means? Why would someone fabulously wealthy, talented, and adored need medications unless those medications had been introduced to them as the preferred method instead of dealing with the mental problems in other ways? I am always surprised to learn of the number of children and adults who take prescription medications to control mental conditions. When we meet people on the street, how do we know it is really them and not them on medication? Pharmacology, psychiatry and psychology can all bee good tools to solve problems as well as bad. The mind and body are complex and even good doctors don't always find or know a problem. I think you're going down a questionable path to think the tools and their uses can be bad whether those tools are ones a medical practitioner or clergy member would use. You should also consider how the sorts of tools I mention here can let you meet the real person. Somebody I admired and who helped me when I was young developed mental illness in his early 20s. It is the medications he takes that show the real him to his family and friends because to us the real guy - the one we grew up with who didn't have mental illness. The medications let him be a successful farmer in the eyes of others instead of that time long ago when his loved ones retrieved him from police at a mental hospital. I've had my own experience with what the medicines can and can't do. I was glad they could help me before my pancreas and endocrine problems were solved. Not sure you're aware, but metabolic and endocrine problems can mess with your mind and self big time. Some side effects were miserable and I'm very glad my problems are past but also glad doctors had a lot of tools to try when I was in a completely miserable period where no belief in any god could help and where you could easily question the god fable based upon the misery I had and my kids facing a deathly ill father in the hospital.
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Post by thedude on Feb 15, 2012 9:26:37 GMT -5
Medicine is like a lot of other things that can be very helpful, or be abused and cause more problems than it originally tried to solve.
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Post by donalgdon on Feb 15, 2012 9:31:50 GMT -5
Particularly where these issues are involved, our world has become a more anxious place to live, and virtually everyone seeks a quick fix. There are none. Anxiety meds do more harm than good, which betrays the oath.
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Post by Rhapsody on Feb 15, 2012 10:19:04 GMT -5
Particularly where these issues are involved, our world has become a more anxious place to live, and virtually everyone seeks a quick fix. There are none. Anxiety meds do more harm than good, which betrays the oath. That's a pretty bold statement to make! In Norm's case, because he was so sensitive, the turmoil from his family sent him into a downward spiral that left him clinically depressed. His brain chemicals were out of balance, and until they found the right meds to restore the balance, he was dysfunctional for a time. Once he righted himself, he was able to leave the meds behind. Without them, I shudder to think what would have happened to him. (All the more tragic that he died so suddenly when he was feeling so good about everything.)
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Post by donalgdon on Feb 15, 2012 10:38:33 GMT -5
The improvement doesn't last long, and they impact the heart negatively. They can help short term (though not for everyone) and none of them are designed for long term use.
The data is crystal clear and beyond doubt, unless you ask a pharm rep, that is.
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Post by Holy Schist on Feb 15, 2012 10:47:14 GMT -5
Particularly where these issues are involved, our world has become a more anxious place to live, and virtually everyone seeks a quick fix. There are none. Anxiety meds do more harm than good, which betrays the oath. I am sorry, but that's so wrong. Somebody close to me had the wallop of husband leaving for another woman when he was in denial over the developmental problems one of their kids has. She was helped much by about 6 months of anxiety meds as she was thrown into sole parent and bread winner for 3 kids. She's deeply religious with her kids in a private religious school but for these problems nothing topped what her doctors did for a period and what the specialists in a public school did for her child because the religious school didn't have the resources and wouldn't accommodate. Some here seem to live in a very black and white world or way where they come off as there is a simple fix for everything. I confess I used to be more like that but can't see it that way now.
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Post by donalgdon on Feb 15, 2012 10:50:20 GMT -5
How do we disagree? I'm saying that, too often, we look for quick fixes where none exist. Check out the long term stats on those 'miracle drugs,' then, let's talk.
Are any of them designed for long term use?
Nope. Not one.
Eventually, you have to come off the drugs, and the rebound anxiety can be worse than the original state which was precipitated by the stressor.
Learning to cope long term is far more effective than the short term fix. The problem is real. I'm not making it up.
Couple that with the increased rate of sudden death, and you've got a double whammy. These drugs negatively impact HRV, which results in increased risk of sudden death.
When you add other common drugs, like statins, the problem is worsened, particularly when you don't add uqiquinol (active CoQ10) in populations over 40.
Any doc who prescribes statins without ubiquinol for someone over 40 (or regular CoQ10 for anyone under 40) is guilty of criminal negligence, in my view. The research is too clear to ignore. It kills people.
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Post by thedude on Feb 15, 2012 11:10:14 GMT -5
How do we disagree? I'm saying that, too often, we look for quick fixes where none exist. Check out the long term stats on those 'miracle drugs,' then, let's talk. Are any of them designed for long term use? Nope. Not one. Eventually, you have to come off the drugs, and the rebound anxiety can be worse than the original state which was precipitated by the stressor. Learning to cope long term is far more effective than the short term fix. The problem is real. I'm not making it up. Couple that with the increased rate of sudden death, and you've got a double whammy. These drugs negatively impact HRV, which results in increased risk of sudden death. The act of doing bypass surgery for a heart attack victim is not a long term means of treatment, either - the act of surgery is an intervention to give the person a shot a living another day. After that, they will still have health challenges, but those challenges are different than the one that required surgery to save the life. So, let's not get confused over the viability of short term solutions and long term solutions.
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Post by Holy Schist on Feb 15, 2012 11:11:49 GMT -5
How do we disagree? I'm saying that, too often, we look for quick fixes where none exist. Check out the long term stats on those 'miracle drugs,' then, let's talk. Are any of them designed for long term use? Nope. Not one. Eventually, you have to come off the drugs, and the rebound anxiety can be worse than the original state which was precipitated by the stressor. Learning to cope long term is far more effective than the short term fix. The problem is real. I'm not making it up. Couple that with the increased rate of sudden death, and you've got a double whammy. These drugs negatively impact HRV, which results in increased risk of sudden death. Sorry if I misunderstood you, but some close to the person I mentioned including her clergy were against her chosen path where there was no intention to use the drugs and psychiatric counseling beyond short-term. This woman's religious support was horrendous at first but I know that's not always the case.
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Post by donalgdon on Feb 15, 2012 11:13:39 GMT -5
How do we disagree? I'm saying that, too often, we look for quick fixes where none exist. Check out the long term stats on those 'miracle drugs,' then, let's talk. Are any of them designed for long term use? Nope. Not one. Eventually, you have to come off the drugs, and the rebound anxiety can be worse than the original state which was precipitated by the stressor. Learning to cope long term is far more effective than the short term fix. The problem is real. I'm not making it up. Couple that with the increased rate of sudden death, and you've got a double whammy. These drugs negatively impact HRV, which results in increased risk of sudden death. The act of doing bypass surgery for a heart attack victim is not a long term means of treatment, either - the act of surgery is an intervention to give the person a shot a living another day. After that, they will still have health challenges, but those challenges are different than the one that required surgery to save the life. So, let's not get confused over the viability of short term solutions and long term solutions. Excellent example. Does bypass typically improve quality of life or long term survival rates? Nope. But, it makes lots of money.
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Post by thedude on Feb 15, 2012 11:22:51 GMT -5
The act of doing bypass surgery for a heart attack victim is not a long term means of treatment, either - the act of surgery is an intervention to give the person a shot a living another day. After that, they will still have health challenges, but those challenges are different than the one that required surgery to save the life. So, let's not get confused over the viability of short term solutions and long term solutions. Excellent example. Does bypass typically improve quality of life or long term survival rates? Nope. But, it makes lots of money. If a person is having a heart attack, like I said in my example, then yes the bypass surgery has a higher survival rate than not bypassing. Most people consider being alive to be an improved quality of life over death.
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Post by thedude on Feb 16, 2012 5:44:20 GMT -5
Is being an intolerant Christian fundamentalist a learned response? Is it being passed down to the next generation?
Do some learn to control their thoughts by becoming an intolerant Christian fundamentalist instead of learning to control their thoughts by other means?
Why would someone fabulously wealthy, talented, and adored need intolerant Christian fundamentalists?
I am always surprised to learn the number of children and adults who use are intolerant Christian fundamentalists.
When we meet people on the street, how do we know they really aren’t really intolerant Christian fundamentalists?
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Post by Holy Schist on Feb 16, 2012 6:45:45 GMT -5
Is being an intolerant Christian fundamentalist a learned response? Is it being passed down to the next generation? Do some learn to control their thoughts by becoming an intolerant Christian fundamentalist instead of learning to control their thoughts by other means? Why would someone fabulously wealthy, talented, and adored need intolerant Christian fundamentalists? I am always surprised to learn the number of children and adults who use are intolerant Christian fundamentalists. When we meet people on the street, how do we know they really aren’t really intolerant Christian fundamentalists? Forums, Facebook and Twitter have been better tip offs for me, and the Christian fundamentalist part seems more learned than intolerant behavior. I know a surprising many who replaced alcoholism and drug abuse with Jesus abuse and addiction with the intolerance still there. In some of these cases Jesus seems to be a temporary fix like medicine. For one I know her psychiatric treatments that include medicine have the alcoholism, intolerance, paranoia and difficulties holding a job fixed up quite well. I think she's taken bupropion or Xanax and maybe others with one being really bad when she starts drinking. Something really interesting about the person I mention above is her fundamentalist sibling and church members put pressure on her when she's getting aid from the psychiatrist instead of their pastor even though it's clear this woman can hold down her job when she uses all the sources of help. These fundamentalists in her life seem really worried about loosing the brand loyalty and income even if a member of their team does better with the diversity. Now I have to stop wasting time, get to work and hope the person I mentioned is on her medication or my work day will be more difficult and hers worse.
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Post by naill on Feb 16, 2012 7:05:23 GMT -5
Pharmacology, psychiatry and psychology can all bee good tools to solve problems as well as bad. The mind and body are complex and even good doctors don't always find or know a problem. Do you think that Whitney Houston learned/excepeted to use medication to live life and do you think she passed that along to her daughter? Not that pharmacology cannot be a useful tool, but are we a society that is taking a dangous path? What if performers had the same drug restrictions as other professions. Would WH be alive. I know there is no way to say, but it make me wonder.
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