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Post by donalgdon on Mar 10, 2012 17:52:07 GMT -5
That's my point. In theory/on paper, it should be diet and exercise modifications first, but in practice, it's typically not. I'd put them on a protein sparing diet with whole foods while carefully monitoring their fluids and electrolytes. They typically reverse their diabetes in 30 days by eliminating their processed food and refined carbohydrate intake.
The trick is not to wait until their health is totally destroyed before taking action. I was actually in a Med school program for a while, and I had family members suffer and die from diabetes, so I got my information from personal experience. I've also attended dozens of pharm conferences. I'm suggesting that what the patient gets isn't the best level of care possible, and I blame the industry, which puts profits ahead of people.
Do you dispute the principle claim that the two classes of drugs I mentioned, namely statins and diabetes drugs do more harm than good?
On what basis? I'd like to see your research.
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Post by naill on Mar 10, 2012 22:32:55 GMT -5
Do you dispute the principle claim that the two classes of drugs I mentioned, namely statins and diabetes drugs do more harm than good? Yes On what basis? I'd like to see your research. The basis is the fact that people with type 1 diabetes have no options other than insulin produced by the pharmaceutical industry. And, the research required for approval had to have a p value to be approved.
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Post by donalgdon on Mar 10, 2012 23:07:27 GMT -5
Two excellent examples on the diabetes drug issue alone. I have found at least a dozen more since we began this discourse on the topic. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?orig_db=PubMed&db=PubMed&cmd=Search&term=%22JAMA%20%3A%20the%20journal%20of%20the%20American%20Medical%20Association%22%5BJour%5D%20AND%202007%5Bpdat%5D%20AND%20Singh%20S%5Bauthor%5Dwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22The+New+England+journal+of+medicine%22%5BJour%5D+AND+2007/05/21%5Bpdat%5D+AND+Nissen%5Bauthor%5DAgain, what is your basis for disputing the claim? It's certainly not the current science, so it must obviously be something else. The same sort of problems arise with statin drugs. They inhibit enzyme pathways in the body, and as a result, have a dramatic impact on heart attack rates and sudden death. I've said before: Any physician who puts his/her patient on any statin drug without prescribing Coenzyme Q10 (or Ubiquinol for those over 40, since they tend to lose the ability to convert it to its active form that those under 40 typically posses) is, in my view, guilty of criminal negligence. The research is so conclusive that it should not be ignored, but it is being ignored on a regular basis. Anyway, we were talking about type 2, but type 1 has also been reversed (in some cases) by diet and lifestyle changes, which is also contrary to the popular belief on the subject.
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Post by naill on Mar 11, 2012 8:38:30 GMT -5
Anyway, we were talking about type 2, but type 1 has also been reversed (in some cases) by diet and lifestyle changes, which is also contrary to the popular belief on the subject. There is no cure for Type 1 Diabetes, Don. Diet and lifestyle will not recover the inability of a pancreas to produce insulin that occured as the result of an autoimmune response. This is why short and long acting insulin is used to mimic normal physiology. Normal physiology replication is always the goal. Lack of exercise and poor diet exacerbate the disease for people with type 2 diabetes. Many time the obese lovable gentle types are slowly killing themselves. These wonderful people present a real challange to health care providers. There is also a challange to gain prior approvals for needed services and products.
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Post by donalgdon on Mar 11, 2012 11:17:47 GMT -5
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Post by naill on Mar 11, 2012 11:46:12 GMT -5
I realize it's not the norm, but it is possible. Argue with the people who have been cured by diet and lifestyle. There was a documentary film made a few years ago which chronicled a group of diabetics in their journey toward health, and at least one of those was a type 1 diabetic. They never had Type 1 diabetes, Don. Diet and exercise will not replace insulin or regenerate a pancreases ability to produce insulin. There is no cure for Type 1 diabetes. If you can show that it will, please contact the Amercian Diabetes Association first thing on Monday. You will win a prize I am sure. Lack of exercise and poor diet CAUSE type 2 diabetes, they don't just exacerbate it. Not unless you are genetically predisposed. There are "Skinny Type 2's" and obese Type 2 people with diabetes. Some are easily managed and some have the classic dysmetabolic syndome common with diabetes which results in vascular bed degradation resulting in organ damage from inflamation. Thanks for the discussion. It has been years since I was involved in diabetes care. It would be my ambition to be involved again. Also, I am not suggesting that improvements cannot be made. I am just saying that with the varied demographics of people with diabetes, one size, as you suggest, does not fit all.
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Post by donalgdon on Mar 11, 2012 12:07:09 GMT -5
That's just not true, Charlie. They did have type 1. Yes, it's true that not all diabetics are fat, but the gene theory of diabetes is dying fast. It's being killed by research. Like I said, I understand your spoon-fed dependence on the tired dogma, because most of the country is in line with you, but I've provided you enough resources to get you started on the path out of it. The American Diabetes Association cares as much about what really works to reverse diabetes as the American Heart Association cares about how to reverse heart disease. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSUw9SaPLmAOne of the above participants was a type 1 diabetic.
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Post by naill on Mar 11, 2012 16:15:16 GMT -5
That's just not true, Charlie. They did have type 1. Yes, it's true that not all diabetics are fat, but the gene theory of diabetes is dying fast. It's being killed by research. Like I said, I understand your spoon-fed dependence on the tired dogma, because most of the country is in line with you, but I've provided you enough resources to get you started on the path out of it. The American Diabetes Association cares as much about what really works to reverse diabetes as the American Heart Association cares about how to reverse heart disease. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSUw9SaPLmAOne of the above participants was a type 1 diabetic. It's not worth arguing over, Don. The cause for Type 1 diabetes is not a mystery, so no "spoon feeding" is necessary. And, just because someone disagrees with you about any topic does not mean their position is based on myths or misunderstandings. I worked with the American Diabetes Association for years, your perceptions about the ADA, diabetes, and care givers is inaccurate to say the least. If you can show that a diet and exercise can restore insulin producing B cells, please tells us the MOA.
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Post by donalgdon on Mar 11, 2012 17:22:37 GMT -5
It's great that you worked for the American Diabetes Association, but you are ignoring reality. Type 2 diabetes is caused by lifestyle choices, namely, diet and exercise habits. Period. It is curable. The American Diabetes Association is clueless and purposely misleading people by not telling this simple truth to diabetes sufferers. They still recommend grains (and fruits) as central components of their diet plan, and they shouldn't. Their meal plans still, to this day, recommend between 45-75 grams of carbohydrates per meal, which doesn't include snacks. That's a daily total of several hundred grams. They are killing people by misinforming them. Here's one of their own books. www.shopdiabetes.org/131-what-do-i-eat-now.aspx?utm_source=WWW&utm_medium=ContentPage&utm_content=FoodAndFitness_MakingHealthFoodChoices&utm_campaign=BOOKI'm not sure why that doesn't bother you, but as you said, it's not worth arguing over.
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Post by naill on Mar 11, 2012 19:21:59 GMT -5
It's great that you worked for the American Diabetes Association, but you are ignoring reality. Type 2 diabetes is caused by lifestyle choices, namely, diet and exercise habits. Period. It is curable. The American Diabetes Association is clueless and purposely misleading people by not telling this simple truth to diabetes sufferers. They still recommend grains (and fruits) as central components of their diet plan, and they shouldn't. Their meal plans still, to this day, recommend between 45-75 grams of carbohydrates per meal, which doesn't include snacks. That's a daily total of several hundred grams. They are killing people by misinforming them. Here's one of their own books. www.shopdiabetes.org/131-what-do-i-eat-now.aspx?utm_source=WWW&utm_medium=ContentPage&utm_content=FoodAndFitness_MakingHealthFoodChoices&utm_campaign=BOOKI'm not sure why that doesn't bother you, but as you said, it's not worth arguing over. Diabetes cannot be cured, but it can be controlled. There is a genetic predisposition, but environmental factors can also play a role. I cannot comment on your opinion regarding diet. One book that I enjoyed and found informative was The Glucose Revolution. Why would I be bother by your opinion with which I do no agree? Are you bothered that no medical authority would agree that diet and exercise cures Type 1 diabetes?
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Post by donalgdon on Mar 11, 2012 20:55:26 GMT -5
I cited a few medical doctors who make a living curing diabetes. Are they medical authorities?
I also cited one medical doctor who cured type 1 and 2 diabetes in patients using the same techniques wrote a book and made a documentary film about it.
When an insulin dependent diabetic no longer needs insulin and no longer has any clinical symptoms of diabetes, he/she is cured of diabetes.
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Post by naill on Mar 12, 2012 5:16:00 GMT -5
I cited a few medical doctors who make a living curing diabetes. Are they medical authorities? I also cited one medical doctor who cured type 1 and 2 diabetes in patients using the same techniques wrote a book and made a documentary film about it. When an insulin dependent diabetic no longer needs insulin and no longer has any clinical symptoms of diabetes, he/she is cured of diabetes. Okay, I accept your experiences. That's the most respectful response I am able to make given the physiological nature of the disease, the variable demographicalssues that the care givers face, and the individual nature of each person with diabetes. To your very disrespectful comments regarding the pharmaceutical industry and the many caregivers. I continue to disagree and would consider your comments grossly un-balanced.
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Post by donalgdon on Mar 12, 2012 8:50:23 GMT -5
My comments regarding the industry are 100 percent accurate. It routinely puts profit ahead of patient outcomes. I cited two specific examples, which have been given no response whatsoever. If I were simply making baseless accusations of a general nature, then I'd understand your position, but since I'm dealing with specific and provable cases, I don't consider the industry worthy of respect. When it changes, I'll give it the respect it earns in the process. The industry's attitude is one of the things that drove me away from my childhood dream of practicing medicine.
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Post by naill on Mar 12, 2012 15:43:50 GMT -5
My comments regarding the industry are 100 percent accurate. It routinely puts profit ahead of patient outcomes. I cited two specific examples, which have been given no response whatsoever. If I were simply making baseless accusations of a general nature, then I'd understand your position, but since I'm dealing with specific and provable cases, I don't consider the industry worthy of respect. When it changes, I'll give it the respect it earns in the process. The industry's attitude is one of the things that drove me away from my childhood dream of practicing medicine. I have always found your posts spot on, fair, and accurate, but this one does not compare to the others. It is like you have something going on that appears so irrational. To allow anything except yourself to take away a childhood dream is inexcusable.
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Post by donalgdon on Mar 12, 2012 16:15:25 GMT -5
I made the choice, given that practicing medicine with these matters in their current state is not something I could do in good conscience, and I'm at peace with the decision.
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